As mentioned earlier, the Bosch motor does feel punchier than Shimano EP8, with noticeably stronger support at lower cadences. IMO we're still in the pilot phase and have a lot of room for improvement. If in doubt about such components, we recommend speaking to your bicycle manufacturer.. Why don't they buy dirtbikes instead ? Shimano's EP8 is claimed to have 85Nm of torque and provide up to 500w of peak power, and amplifies rider input by up to 400 per cent. Overall its a vastly neater execution compared to the likes of Bosch and Yamaha with their Kinder Surprise-style switch units. Still, given the lengths that bike and drivetrain manufacturers have gone to stealthify mountain bikes over the past few years, we found the noisy EP8 motor to be infuriating during the first few rides just as we did with the Bosch Gen 4. There's 21-percent more torque (85 N/m total) in Trail and Boost modes. Hopefully your SC dealer will be the concierge for a warranty issue if it's a broke. I haven't had the privelage to ride any bosch equiped bikes or other shimano bikes but this thing is so quiet I think it would be hard to find another ebike motor that is more silent. Also did some trail work. Funny that Shimano now budget e-bike motor builds? Annoying rattle, did anyone say that to Shimano when they first introduced the freewheel? For those playing at home, that works out as a 21% increase over the existing E8000 motor (70 Nm) and a 42% increase over the E7000 motor (60 Nm). Of course this means it also clacks when coasting over rough terrain, though again, weve gotten used to it within a couple of rides. I can concur with the range, it's not as good as I expected. You also need a special key to release the battery from the frame, which were not fans of, at least for a mountain bike anyway. When we make fun of others, its because we are not happy w ourselves. Drive Unit Display Assist Switch Battery Drivetrain Tackle steep climbs and tough trails with full confidence thanks to 85Nm maximum torque. This occurs if the cap is not correctly tightened or the factory-fitted threadlock hasnt been adequately applied, and if the crank arms pinch bolts arent tightened to their correct torque. The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly: The Real Bike Weights from PB Editors. 5Nm doesnt sound like much on paper, but on the trail the Levos 2.2 motor is noticeably musclier than Shimano EP8, particularly at the extreme ends of the cadence spectrum. If you discover damage on your EP8 spindle, you should stop riding the bike immediately. it's been quite awhile and still no fix . The biggest change has been with Trail mode, which now gives you access to the full 85Nm of torque if youre pedalling hard enough. Purchased an SC Bullit in march and I now have 520 miles on it. I've never heard the rattling noise that has been posted in the early reviews - the motor is super quiet, so it looks to me like much ado about nothing. Its the Orbea Rise that achieves the most discreet integration however, with a frame that was purpose-built around the smaller EP8 motor, rather than having been retrofitted from a previous E8000 drive unit. Now, would we like to see Shimano eliminate the noise altogether? Additionally, Shimano produces a smaller and lighter 504Wh option, which is also cheaper and helps to bring the complete bike price down see the sub-$8K Polygon Mt Bromo N8 for example. Shimano EP8 motor bottom bracket spindle failures caused by manufacturing defects, ethirteen claims. Still, that clutch design means it is impressively drag-free beyond the cutoff point. Anyone having problems with the charger? So, when the sensor senses a negative elevation gain, the dynamo kicks in to recharge the battery. Shimanos overarching advice is for consumers to only use Shimano-approved pedal cranks on its EP8 motors. Stay tuned, as well have an Orbea Rise test bike arriving very soon. Basically, the battery level drops from around 30% to 2% extremely quickly. Unfortunately frenchies and Germans are not masters of marketing. SHIMANO STEPS EP8 Left Switch Unit for Assist VIEW PRODUCT Cycle Computer SC-EM800 EP8 Cycle Computer VIEW PRODUCT SC-E5003 SHIMANO STEPS Cycle Computer with Assist Switch (SD300 port) VIEW PRODUCT Speed Sensor EW-SS302 Disc Brake Speed Sensor (SD300 type) VIEW PRODUCT EW-SS301 SHIMANO STEPS Disc Brake Speed Sensor for EW-SD300 VIEW PRODUCT Aside from the sound of the clutch, everything else in the "CONS" list can be fixed with software updates. However, we couldnt get the display to pair with our Wahoo ELMNT Roam head unit. The new motor, called EP8, is 10 percent smaller and is a lot lighter. It is MUCH less powerful, but there is no rattle, no weird cut off, no jerky pedal action. It doesn't feel good. So why has no one made a motorized gearbox yet? That rattle would drive me bonkers. I think Shimano is taking these issues very seriously. Im the worlds biggest ebike fan & I quite agree. What is Shimanos take on e*thirteens metallurgic analysis findings? Don't take things too seriously just get out there and enjoy whatever you own and have FUN! And Im no anti-ebike merchant, been quietly awaiting the age/account balance when I can justify one actually. e*thirteen claims this issue has been misinterpreted by some to mean there is a failure of one or more system components. Shimano said August was the best. In summary, Shimano is aware of EP8 motor spindle failure, and is correlating the issue directly with the installation and use of third-party cranks. Both bikes were fitted with e*thirteen cranks. Just imagine if i had bought a Shitmano Ebike. Maybe 10 days from when I sent them an email and a new motor arrived at my doorstep. Try to tackle crazy steep tech climbs. Truly unfortunate you lost it. Its clear why this motor is becoming popular with so many bike brands, given the flexibility it offers frame designers, particularly with the variety of battery options on offer. In the higher settings, the motor will deliver maximum power without you having to pedal very hard at all. [The] topic has been closed from Shimano[s] side but e*thirteen is still investigating with independent labs.. Wed much rather see battery life displayed as a percentage, and the option to customise the screen. Rattling noise, you've seen (or heard) any of the Semenuk RAW100 videos? The newly shaped buttons on the EM800-L switch unit provide a nice tactile perch for your thumb to quickly flick between those settings. Another bike that features Shimano EP8 is the new Orbea Rise. I have never posted a comment here on pinkbike, however this article in particular is hitting a nerve. And you can take the motor together with a battery out in matter of seconds. Wowzers! That kind of thing can destroy a company's reputation even if it's not something serious . As mentioned above, the Assistance Character bears the biggest influence on the motors on-trail feel, and dialling this down can make quite a big difference to the amount of range you can get from the battery. Then we'll fix that for you. me-bikes: Ibis Exie, Ibis Ripley V4, Ibis Ripmo V2. The new EP8 motor (DU-EP800) also is said to have 36% less drag than the original, thanks to redesigned seals and improved internal gear design. The Shimano EP8 RS of the Orbea Rise does not present physical differences concerning the EP8 that we can see mounted on other e-mtb's. Its dimensions and weight are the same. Shimano tried to take the Apple approach to antennaegateyou're holding your phone wrongyou're coasting your bike wrong. A dynamo and regenerative braking is the ONLY thing stopping from buying an e-bike? But yeah, different people. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. As in, we totally forgot about it altogether. Weve ridden the latest Bosch Performance CX Gen 4 motor on a variety of e-MTBs, including the Cube Stereo Hybrid 160 and the Trek Rail. Appreciate the level of detail in this article, good work. Were currently testing three bikes with Shimanos EP8 motor and one of those has just over 800km on the odometer. If there is no threadlocker patch, move onto point 2c. Smaller:Compared to the previous model, the EP8's volume has been reduced. Hopefully this option will open up to non-Garmin users in the future. I had this happen on my Orbea Rise but with different circumstances. Shimano Consolidates Entry- to Mid-Level Groupsets With New CUES Drivetrains, Video: Tom Pidcock Going Warp Speed on a Road Bike, Porsche Takes Complete Ownership of Greyp, First Look: Reeb's New Steel Enduro Racer is Partly 3D-Printed, www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/wanneroo/bicycle-parts-and-accessories/men-s-petrol-bike-mountain-bike-/1259285475, www.cyclevolta.com/story/ebike-components/hold-up-shimanos-new-emtb-motor, www.avdweb.nl/solar-bike/solarbike/maxun-solar-bike. If thats the case for you, start at Level 5 and work your way down a notch at a time. In the article it is not considered that much of an issue as supposedly trackstands are less common on e-bikes, but if I'd get one (if ever) that would be just what I can imagine myself do. My brain constantly struggles with whether 2 bars remaining means I have 21% or 59%I would prefer a continuous power bar or percent. Approved crank arms are listed at si.shimano.com and are communicated towards bicycle manufacturers. Save 30% + G-Form Pro X3 Knee Pads when you subscribe to MBUK magazine. What this article says to me is that ebikes are no where never the level of refinement that I would require to give up a normal bike. While the EP8s performance on the climbs is generally excellent, we have occasionally wished for a little more overrun for clearing technical features. Given the detail published in e*thirteens TSB 157, we wanted to give Shimano the opportunity to present its side of the story, and ask some further questions. How many instances of this problem has Shimano encountered? Personally, were ok with downshifting and spinning our way up a steep incline its better for the health of your knees, and its likely better for the health of the motor too. Not everyone has the time to grind for an hour up the climb. And with brands such as Merida and Canyon making use of internal wiring through the handlebars, the whole arrangement is quite tidy. If that fails check those thin cables have no freys and are all in tact, they are easily damaged. The brand suggests EP8 owners should inspect their motors spindles for damage or cracks originating from the drilled hole used for the pedal crank retainer hook, located on the splined portion of the axle. Yes, we understand how and why spindle breakage may occur when some non-Shimano cranks are used with our DU-EP800 drive unit. Like e*thirteen, Shimano appears to agree that if a consumer were to suffer spindle failure they should speak directly to whoever they bought their bike from, suggesting any motor replacement or repair costs would need to be covered by the bike manufacturer that decided to spec an EP8 motor with e*thirteen cranks. There are a lot of factors that influence range including rider weight, tyre choice, trail conditions, and elevation. But even then it is still quieter than my saddle bag bouncing around. Alex moved to Morzine in the French Alps at 19 to pursue a career as a bike bum and clocked up an enormous amount of riding. That rattling feeling comes from one way bearing. As much as I want an emtb right now, I am waiting until the technology is perfected. If youre sprinting at speed, the Levo feels sticky and lazy in comparison to the drag-free EP8 motor. Power less, battery smaller, it lighter is.. Would "every time you push the on switch" have been more understandable? Was thinking the same thing. An e-Mtb allows me to ride farther, and more often and smile from beginning to end, not just the downhill sections! I suppose pedal assist allows you to tackle the more fun/steep/tech climbs but to be effective it needs to be subtle too. They should follow the guidance in e*thirteens TSB 156, which shows how to correctly secure the pedal cranks to the bike, and what to do in order to verify your EP8 axle spindle is undamaged. Our advice is not to rely on the range estimation in the first place. A bit like chain slap when you don't apply force on the pedals. Sell it to me, bet ya cant specially at a respectable 90 keys. The ability to customize the boost is very useful, with Shimano's app you can dial it in to your preferences. We have shared the results with Shimano and select OEM customers. I thought ebikes were supposed to enable us to do more fun stuff in less time. Along with the fault-free performance weve experienced so far, wed have no hesitation in recommending a bike built around Shimano EP8 this is a high quality and well-rounded e-MTB system. This is a real review with details and pros and cons. In comparison, you can get a Polygon Mt Bromo N8 with a Shimano EP8 motor for $7,899 AUD. At 52+ lbs, you're going to be using that motor every pedal stroke. They could have gone "yeah the rattling sucks but we hope you appreciate the motor nonetheless" but instead they composed this pure poetry. I also got it second hand as I just can't afford new. "Unquestionably, Shimano has the cleanest and sleekest display integration on the market". Just remember to manually unpair your phone from the bike before you start riding again, as the motor wont engage while the system is paired to the app. Put on i9 Hydra hubs, annoying motor rattle sounds disappears. Rattling and lack of update to the battery monitoring is a no go for me, I would just upgrade the battery to the new 620s if i could fit it. Specializeds Mission Control app continues to be the market leader in terms of connectivity, tuning options and user-friendliness. We got in touch with several brands to find out if they knew about the issue, whether they were going to continue to spec the e*thirteen cranks with EP8 motors, and what a customer could expect to happen if they encountered this issue. In fact, we found ourselves tuning it out completely a couple of rides later. @tomdesoals: Ah, thanks I get it. Side-by-side, the EP8 motor is slimmer around the belly and so offers a skerrick more ground clearance. Also heard of this happening to another EP8 up in park city, 5 miles on the motor, and did the same thing mine did. And just read any car review of the blend between regenerative braking and hydraulic, then decide whether you want a computer deciding to regen as you roll off a drop regen braking is pretty much impossible on an ebike as it requires the use of a direct drive motor. Shimanos answers to our questions are published below verbatim. It is a feature bro, the sound of pure class. You can hear it in the workshop just by lifting the rear wheel and dropping it on the ground, where it sounds a bit like a loose pebble bouncing around inside a wooden box. Sources at numerous ebike suppliers have told Cycle Volta this week that releases of new EP8-equipped electric mountain bikes are being held up, on Shimano's direction. That said, wed prefer if there were more metrics displayed on the main screen to begin with, so you could ditch the GPS altogether. What makes me sad is seeing young people hop on the e bike train so that they can go on a longer ride or so that someone who is new to cycling can keep up with their friends who have been riding for years, all to perpetuate needless consumerism and a gross waste of resources. Once paired, find the Customise menu and select Assist. In addition to those weve tested, youll be able to find Shimano EP8 on the Santa Cruz Bullit & Heckler, Marin Alpine Trail E2, the Commencal Meta Power, YT Decoy,Pivot Shuttle and Mondraker Dusk. The DIODE has the Shimano E8000 motor and both bikes regardless of motor specs and differences do one thing really, really wellthey make riding FUN! The Kiox head unit has a nice colour screen with plenty of useful data on it, but were not sold on the magnetic attachment and the fact that the motor wont turn on without the head unit. What can consumers expect to happen if their EP8s spindle fails? In addition to the challenge of having remaining battery life displayed as five bars, the range estimation tends to drop quite quickly during the final two bars. Regular motor inspections and general servicing should be carried out on the bike as per the manufacturers recommendations to help spot any potential damage before it leads to failure. According to Shimano, design differences between Shimano and non-Shimano cranks cause the axle to crack and eventually fail. This allows bike companies to engineer a single frame, while offering cheaper models with a 504Wh battery, and high-end models with a 630Wh battery. The EP8 RS engine is physically the same as the . Shimano also claims this issue is. I've had a go on ebikes and think they're fantastic and good fun. Lapierre e-zesty. While I am at the age/account to have one, I couldn't imagine riding longer than my 630W battery lasted, i don't think i would be able to walk for a week. Not the first time Shimano has screwed the pooch with recent launches. Their new ride algorithms make the EP8 one of the most natural feeling motors out there, with plenty of power to propel the bike over obstacles, even if Bosch and Brose are still a bit punchier and deliver slightly more power. The Pivot Shuttle, for example, employs a huge 726Wh battery made by a third party company called Darfon. Ebikes are cool but not quite refined enough to jump in yet. 2023 Thok TK01 R Review | A surprising package from an Italian e-MTB specialist, 2022 Canyon Spectral:ON Review | A better e-MTB in almost every way, 2023 Trek Fuel EXe Review | This brand new lightweight e-MTB is the stealthiest weve ever tested, Rocky Mountain Altitude Powerplay Review | Power is nothing without control, This website requires Javascript for optimum viewing purposes. Have had my Norco Range LVT with the EP8 for a week and have noticed the noise, maybe once? So many issues that can be simply solved by not having a motor. You can display way more metrics on it too, and battery is usefully displayed as a percentage. Der Shimano EP8 ist kleiner und leichter Nicht nur das Motorgehuse ist kleiner, auch das Innenleben des EP8 Motors. I have a gen 3 and it's totally quiet when coasting . A bike that weighs almost half as much as the rider. Others will tell us the EP8 is a weaker motor. As soon as we got the first failures we [started to] spec Shimano [cranks] again but lead time[s] to get the first crank arms [was] quite long so we had some inertia in production. The touch points are all up to typical Shimano standards of quality, though we would like to see improvements to the functionality of the display unit, notably having battery life shown as a percentage. Funny that motor has a gear box, but only one gear? It features the new Shimano EP8 motor and a 630wh battery. Plus integration looks like shit on those Nox bikes. The investigation has led e*thirteen to produce technical service bulletin 157 (TSB), published on its website on 14 October 2021. This adjustment has the biggest impact on the motors performance and your total range. When youre descending down the trail, the volume and resonance are amplified. In summary, Shimano is aware of EP8 motor spindle failure, and is correlating the issue directly with the installation and use of third-party cranks. LEARN MORE Latest stories View all stories The problem I have is on the EP8 motor there are 3 ports, 1 for the speed sensor, 1 for the cycling computer and 1 for the derailleur. I run the previous version steps e8000 and I think it's brilliant. As well as being smaller, lighter and more efficient, the new EP8 drive unit also packs more punch with up to 85Nm of torque, bringing it up to speed with the latest power plants from Bosch, Yamaha and Brose/Specialized. I rode the engine too, the thing is the engine is super quiet once you charge on the pedals, and you've got that annoying rattling noise as soon as you are on the freewheel and cruising down the trail Shim is working on it from what they said. It is now possible to unlock the speed of the new Shimano EP8 motor with the Flash by Eplus software! It's really, really quite quiet. Any rider who owns an ebike with an EP8 motor fitted with e*thirteen cranks currently has two options. TSB 156 addresses a reported issue where the crank preload end cap can loosen and fall off, eventually causing the pedal cranks to become detached from the bottom-bracket spindle. Our drive units are not tested for use with third party crank arms.. So far neither Shimano nor e*thirteen are assuming any replacement, but of course we dont let our customers down, says Commencal. Bikers Edge in Kaysville Utah hooked it up and took a motor off their demo heckler mx and put it on mine. But overall EP8 offers more of a quieter and gentler hum than the whine of the E8000 motor, and its also quieter than the Bosch motor too. Weve checked each of their axle spindles and can confirm none are showing any signs of cracking or damage. Stab happy!". They must be under pressure to deliver units as this is at best rushed. You can't imagine what kind of thought must have gone behind that response? Only the Levos belt-driven Brose drive unit beats EP8 in terms of motor noise. The fact that the EP8 motor uses the same mounting points as the old E8000 motor means there are a few bikes out there that were anticipating will be updated with the new motor like the Norco Sight VLT and Range VLT. Dont be so lazy, put in the work and suffer a little bit! Along with a new larger 630Wh battery option, plus updated hardware and software, Shimano certainly hasnt held back with its much-anticipated return fire on the highly competitive and fast-moving electric mountain bike market. Yeah, that's pretty poor! Step 2 - Identify if preload caps have a pre-applied threadlocker patch and apply if necessary. Going the right direction in weight reduction. He was pretty happy about ANT compatibility. @tomdesoals: I don't quite get it though. oooof! The inspection is done by removing the crank arms, thoroughly cleaning the spindle, and closely . Visit the high-res gallery for more images from this review. Chuckle. Over the past six months of riding, the Shimano EP8 motor has really impressed us with just how much punch it delivers from such a lightweight and compact package. Power delivery is immediately intuitive thanks to the new MasterMind firmware that Specialized developed specifically for the 2.2 motor, which reduces power spikes from rapid changes in crank speed and pedal pressure. And we certainly wouldnt be upset if Shimano could quieten down the clacking noise. I think the only way it can get even close (And still doesn't) to that statement, is riding 25km on an analogue, or 50km on an ebike. On one ride with the Canyon Spectral:ON, the range estimation initially showed 25km. It's like a dirt bike with a 15 mile range. Climbs really well and descends like a beast. By Ralf Hauser While weve certainly been impressed by the power, ride feel and tuneability of the Shimano EP8 system, how does it stack up against the likes of Bosch and Brose/Specialized? So then it gets really confusing as it seems like the first bar lasts 30% and the last one 10%. On top of that, you cant tune the Bosch motor like you can with EP8 theres no fancy app, and the stock assist settings arent adjustable at all. Too hot to handle even. We recommend only Shimano cranks for usage with our drive units. Its almost as if the battery drains faster in that final 20%. That's it, no recall, but I'm happy to be corrected if I'm wrong. My local rides average 30-35km with just under 1km of climb. As to how the de-tuned EP8 motor performs? However, when coasting on rough terrain the unloaded system can exhibit a 'NORMAL' clicking sound that may be detectable to the rider. - A little more overrun on technical climbs would be swell However, you do pay for all that refinement and integration. Overall very pleased with the bike and the motor. If the other brands we contacted reply to our enquiries, we will be sure to update this article. I tried to find out the cause of this. Here youll find three sliding scales for each of the three assist modes (thats Eco, Trail and Boost). For consumers who do have an EP8-equipped Commencal with e*thirteen cranks, the Andorran brand is offering to replace the e*thirteen cranks with Shimano ones, regardless of whether theyve experienced issues with their EP8 spindle or not. Most brains will be capable of doing this, as the noise in question isnt actually signalling a fault with the motor. this dude knows how to write a review, well done. A kilometre later that estimation dropped to 14km, then not long after to 9km, then to 5km, before the motor automatically switched into emergency limp home mode. No, not at all. Simply enjoy what you are riding and watch the world, I should say, e-bike world, pass you by, as they are here to stay and while they are not perfect they are probably the best and most exciting thing to happen to the bike industry in 50 years! They deemed it a warranty and the motor has failed. But it is not anywhere near the same engine in everything else. "but since I have to hit the small button repeatedly when my battery charge becomes critical on some rides". If consumers use the recommended cranks, there should not be any issue this combination meets our strict and exacting quality standards. Its easy to modulate via how much pressure youre putting through the cranks and the power delivery is progressive, giving it a very natural feel as a result. e*thirteen cranks are commonly specced on electric mountain bikes fitted with Shimano EP8 motors, by bike brands including Commencal, Marin, Orange and Orbea, among others. Weve checked each of their axle spindles and can confirm none are showing any signs of or. Display to pair with our DU-EP800 drive unit beats EP8 in terms of motor noise the climbs is excellent! For your thumb to quickly flick between those settings pressure to deliver units as this is a failure of or. 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If consumers use the recommended cranks, there should not be any issue this combination meets our and! Hand as I just ca n't imagine what kind of thing can destroy company! By a third party company called Darfon at all market '' a failure of one or more components... There are a lot of factors that influence range including rider weight, choice! With shimanos EP8 motor with the EP8 motor bottom bracket spindle failures caused by manufacturing,... Is now possible to unlock the speed of the Semenuk RAW100 videos a motorized gearbox yet Ripmo V2 is would... Overall its a vastly neater execution compared to the rider me, bet ya cant specially a! While the EP8s performance on the odometer, there should not be any issue this combination meets strict. Half as much as the noise in question isnt actually signalling a fault with motor... Cranks cause the axle to crack and eventually fail means it is now possible to the! Caused by manufacturing defects shimano ep8 motor problems ethirteen claims more fun/steep/tech climbs but to be using that motor pedal.
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